Copenhage interpretation

Hello Vacuum Lovers!!! :wink:

My name is Nuno. I am a Quantum Therapist and Life Coach from Brazil (City called Curtitiba) and I am a Nassim’s Unified Phisics Lover!!
Yesterday during the 3rd transmission I made the question about the difference of the Copenhage Interpretation and the Nassim’s Theory point of view and the question was answered by Nassim! It was AWESOME!!

I think this issue is something in the Unified Phisics Theory that is amazing!
Yesterday I studied a lot of videos in Youtube about the Pilot Wave Theory from Broglie and Bohm, as Nassim recommended during the transmission!

I WOULD LOVE discuss about that!
What your opinion about this subject?

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The video I like the most was this one below:

About the Pilot Wave Theory I have some doubts. For instance, in the double split experiment, considering Copenhagen Interpretation, when we don’t measure or when we “don’t observe” there are a lot of possibilities and the result are waves pattern. And when “we observe” there is only one possibility.
What happens with the infinity possibilities in the Pilot Wave Theory?
I’m a little bit confused… :thinking:

What is your opinion about?
@JamieLee @ex-east @fattyfattyfatfreak @PennyHeiple @Wiliam_RSF @Nassim

Thank you! :wink:

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okay…
I’m going to take a stab at this but be warned:
I don’t have a degree.
I don’t have a career.
I work as a dishwasher in a nursing home and smoke weed almost everyday but for some reason I’ve been drawn to psychology, physics and systems theory since high school. (it was what I was reading when I was supposed to be going to class).

here goes:
I think it’s a good 3D model of a 4D phenomenon (one day I will know how to spell that word without looking it up, but not today…)
the division of possibilities happens on a different plane/frequency/dimension leaving us to only experience the singularity that has been collapsed into your experience, in YOUR time and space given the conditions that are matched by your emotions. (aka you get what you expect).

Which brings me to this ‘bounce’ that happens. The droplet will either bounce ‘here’ or ‘there’ giving it momentum (or the illusion of momentum?) if it’s consistent enough in it’s intelligent, mindful, decisions made out compassion and integrity that is inherent in the consciousness in everything.
If droplets meditate.
If they don’t then they probably won’t be coherent.

so in conclusion…life is going to cause you to bounce…just choose which direction you want to bounce in…
quantum physics application :wink:

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My very simple view is there are not infinite possibilities but an infinite universe In now there is only this possibility and it is infinite? add the new infinities up and we have a new now. I am sure there is and hopeful to see a better explanation.

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Hi Nuno, I think this requires some disambiguation. In both the Bohr-Heisenberg Model (the Copenhagen Interpretation) and in the de Broglie-Bohm Pilot Wave model there is a superposition defined by the wavefunction. This describes all possibilities—so it is there in both models, although in Bohmian Mechanics the entire universe may be the wavefunction.

The wavefunction describes all possible states of the quanta in question. Regarding the double slit experiment, in the Copenhagen Interpretation is not the mere existence of this wavefunction, or multiple possible states that causes the wave interference pattern. It is that the wavefunction allows for a possibility in which the quanta travels through both slits and interferes with itself, causing destructive or constructive interference. Ontologically, this has no physical meaning because how can one thing (a particle) be in two places at once. Pilot Wave Theory resolves this problem of physical interpretation by saying that in addition to the wavefunction defining all possible states there is also a literal wave phenomenon of the particle, so it goes through one or the other of the two slits, interacts with its own pilot wave, and causes constructive or destructive interference.

You see, Pilot Wave Theory, or quantum hydrodynamics is the only one of the two theories that has a physically valid and ontologically coherent explanation for what is happening in reality.

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I knew we get a better explanation well done thank you William

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Thank you so much @fattyfattyfatfreak @jeffree @Wiliam_RSF :hugs:

I’m diggesting your answers!
I’m gonna read over and over again. This discussion is extremely important to me.
Today I searched some Bohm’s articles about Bohmian Mechanics. I’m able to read them all to understand better.

I can share with you.
I’ve created a telegram channel to upload the pdfs:

https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAEuLkW5cgrnbwvaaWw

Thank you so much everybody!

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I like your answer more :joy:

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All of your answers were great too just I think they are actually one step beyond the initial thing that needs to be considered—that in Pilot Wave Theory the wavefunction defining all probabilities is always there (and actually the Copenhagen Interpretation is the only model of quantum mechanics in which the wavefunction ever reduces or collapses) it is just that it is the action of the pilot wave causing an interference pattern.

Y’all were already on the multiple-worlds interpretation, which is the next step. And that gets into some interesting areas: especially the Pilot Wave theory with a Many-Worlds interpretation.

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i’m a pinch behind.
i finished the modules but not the q and a until yesterday.
well played! lol that question made him go on a pretty awesome rant! :joy:

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Welcome to the Holy Grail of Physics Here we find Unified Physics

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**Wiliam_RSF I like what you said about a superposition defined by the wave function". I’m no expert, I’ve only been putting a lot of pieces together, so I’d like your input. You said “allows for a possibility” Would my description below correctly account for this ‘possibility’ in your opinion?

In the Copenhagen experiment the waves become deterministic when observed. Through awareness ‘observation’, we become entangled with the Universal Standing Wave, and cause small local fluctuations of frequency in the Universal Standing Wave to loose superposition and become deterministic as a single wave function perceived as mater in spacetime.

Of course the question still remains, what is this awareness that observes, and what perceives spacetime?

@bobcampbell, what you have described is a nice way to visualize the information feedback dynamic that is occurring in shaping our holographic reality. However, in terms of a true physical explanation it is incomplete, and this is because the Copenhagen interpretation (of the Thomas Young double-slit experiment) is fundamentally untenable. It is a mathematical formalism that works, however at a conceptual level it is not describing the real physical dynamics at play.

First it is important to understand that the Copenhagen interpretation does not require “observation by a conscious observer” to reduce the wavefunction—the wavefunction will collapse as soon as a particle in a superposition interacts with the “environment”, as the environment can function as the observer or “measurement”. However, the environment and its relation to a particle is loosely defined and subjective, the universe is full of subsystems, any of which can play the role of observer. And in fact, today’s more advanced theories (Pilot Wave, Many Worlds, Absorber Theory, Transactional Int.) have no wavefunction collapse at all; as Leonard Susskind puts it “the only thing that happens is that the overall wave function evolves unitarily and becomes more and more entangled”. The universe is an immensely complicated network of entangled subsystems, and only in some approximation can we single out a particular subsystem as “the observer”.

As well, in Bohmian mechanics there are hidden nonlocal variables, which is to say that wavefunction of the universe is completely deterministic, so all “subsystems” within it are deterministic as well if you know the universal wavefunction. Again, there is no place for wavefunction collapse. The entire systems just evolves along becoming more and more entangled and ever increasing in coherence, and consciousness is present in every conceivable spacetime node—shaping that evolution via information feedback and feedf-orward interplay.

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I came upon the experimental work from ION with the double slit experiment and my question is dose it fit in with The Pilot Wave Theory or not. Showing the link between intentional consciousness and “the collapse of wave” It seems the double slit continues to be a bit mysterious, See Video

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Those who continue to rely on state reduction to explain an intrinsic property of consciousness in the universe are making a grave error. The words of Leonard Susskind in his publication ‘Copenhagen vs Everett, Teleportation, and ER=EPR’ summarized it the most concisely:

“It is obvious that the Copenhagen Interpretation cannot be the last word. The universe is filled with subsystems, any one of which can play the role of observer. There is no place in the laws of quantum mechanics for wave function collapse; the only thing that happens is that the overall wave function evolves unitarily and becomes more and more entangled. The universe is an immensely complicated network of entangled subsystems, and only in some approximation can we single out a particular subsystem as THE OBSERVER.”

I call this immensely complicated network of entangled subsystems the “Entanglement Nexus”, and it is this that elucidates the intrinsic nature of consciousness in the universe, not the putative wave function collapse —that is only a conceptual tool, not an actual phenomenon— see my publication ‘Unified Physics and the Entanglement Nexus of Awareness’:

https://www.neuroquantology.com/article.php?id=1182

Moreover, the double slit experiment can be completely explained by Pilot Wave theory, see Ives Coulder’s experimentation with oscillating silicone oil droplets:

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well I’d like to think that if the ever at Wheeler model was true that means that my own universe somebody will figure out a way to make me immortal and thus that’s why memory even exists as if information was destroyed it would have been if it never had existed at all in thus no experience so what I’m saying is someone’s going to show up on my door with a time machine one day and a vial of immortality and no one else is going to get it or maybe just like in the movie Santa Claus with Tim Allen if you kill Santa Claus you get to become Santa Claus better not slip on that roof big boy

From the National Geographic
By Victoria Jaggard , SCIENCE executive editor

One of the things I love about particle physics is how much scientists really want to find cracks in some of their most widely accepted theories. Doing science means coming up with a hypothesis, testing it, and seeing if the results match your predictions. The more times you come up with the same answer, especially via different types of tests, the more likely it is that the hypothesis is correct. Gather enough evidence for related hypotheses, and you are on the path to developing a theory.

In most fields, having observations match your theory is a big win. But for particle physicists, finding a result that does not match predictions is when things really get interesting.

Specifically, physicists have been hoping for such a mismatch in the foundational theory of particle physics, called the standard model. This is the mathematical framework that describes the subatomic particles and forces that make up the universe. So far, test after test shows particles behaving exactly as the math predicts, and in 2012, experiments at the Large Hadron Collider added another entirely expected brick to the standard model in the form of the Higgs boson. That’s a problem, because the math we have can’t account for a few key components of the universe, including a little thing called gravity. Clearly, something somewhere is off, but we have not been able to put our metaphorical finger on it for decades, and that means our basic understanding of everything around us is flawed.

Now, at last, the latest test at Fermilab in Illinois ( pictured above ) reveals one particle, the muon, acting funny enough that it has scientists on the edge of their collective chairs. As our Michael Greshko puts it, this odd muon behavior “is a major hint that the universe contains unseen particles and forces beyond our current grasp.” Future tests may not only strengthen the case, but they may also finally show scientists how to get multiple cosmic theories to align and merge.

“This has been a long time coming, this result. Many of us have been working on it for decades,” University of Manchester physicist Mark Lancaster tells Greshko. “It’s more a feeling of relief than anything else.”

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Hey Girl!

I want to respond to this topic, but I also want to direct my response to you because you are my kind of beautiful. I love your whole vibe! Also, I love elderly adults, and value the workers who care for them in whatever way makes their day better.

Your statement,
“the division of possibilities happens on a different plane/frequency/dimension leaving us to only experience the singularity that has been collapsed into your experience, in YOUR time and space given the conditions that are matched by your emotions. (aka you get what you expect).”
is extremely intuitive to the Hermetic theology of Aether. Aether being the fundamental material that makes up form. Any form. The smallest sub-particle of light. The Aether is the particle, the wave function, the infinite possibilities of position and velocity involved, and all local and non-local hidden variables. Aether explains the entanglement of all matter because it is that which creates its form. If we could study Aether directly with our senses, we would see a seemingly unstable sub-particle network. But the bigger picture would reveal that the network expands infinitely. This takes us to the inference that the Aether is directly connected to the time-space of the physical plane. That would make it subject to or possibly the cause of Entropy. Entropy, in Hermetics is chaos and disorder, or the unseen. This is what the origin of all creation is said to be in almost all cultures and religions. There was void and nothingness and then there was light, right? This is just like saying that there was no formation, then there was an idea for formation. The idea manifests into form. But form is a collection of lego pieces that we call atoms. Each atom is a mini-universe. But when these mini-universes combine their magnetic forces, they create a new substance on a macro-level, without losing their coherence in their reality of micro-level stuff. So to the sub-particles which make up matter to our perception, they are not a network, they see themselves as individuals. In the same way as we see ourselves as separate individuals. And yet, we are also a network of entangled consciousnesses. Think; Captain Planet. :slight_smile:

I believe that there is a superposition to all forms and the particles which make them, which is the multiverse of entanglement of possibilities. In other words, all possible effects of all causes have their own created reality which is hidden from our perception until we choose the path to take. When we match the velocity and angle of the chosen path, we are syncronized with that particular wave field, and it becomes our reality. The observer, therefore is the only “thing” that actually exists. All else is a form of a wave function manifesting the possibility of that particular angle of perception.

This is elegantly symbolized in the Flower of Life, where each circle is a consciousness, overlapping other consciousness and creating a network of seemingly individual circles, but in the overall picture, there is no separation of force, only a seeming separation of form. The Aether is what both separates and connects us. I hope that makes sense.

@Wiliam_RSF I believe that the Aether, as it is understood in a philosophical manner, can resolve your question of how one thing can be in two places at once. The form is not a thing. The observer is the only thing that exists. All form is a collection of sub-particles which are combining magnetically to take the shape or form of the projected effect (possibility) of a previous cause. aka; “Image of God” What we forget about is the thought involved. The experiment is collapsed when there is a measurement. The act of observation at all changes the outcome. This is because consciousness has expectations. All Aetheric sub-particles have their individual, yet interconnected consciousnesses. Like coral. Each polyp sees with its own vision, and yet they are not separate from the whole. That is how consciousness works. It is the observer, the observation, and the expectation.

I don’t think there is one reality which is sane or correct. I believe that we can choose the reality we align with. We do that with small choices, and the alignment is so miniscule that we don’t even notice the slow transition. That is how new civilizations emerge, they build over the old ones slowly. They make small social changes. They change hearts and the effects of that are three generations later. And it is so beautiful.

Anyway, I want to leave you guys with this video because I love this guy and his simple explanations. I also believe theory of backwards time flow. It is a commonly held Hermetic philosophy that time flows in more than one direction, but we are only able to experience one direction with our physical senses. I think the Pilot wave theory and the Copenhagen experiment are so clutch to understanding the bigger picture, but not alone. They are pieces of a bigger puzzle. Thanks so much for reading my response. I really appreciate this thought pathway and the opportunity to communicate with such intelligent and incredible people.

https://youtu.be/eNJFUo7yHhQ

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oh no,
thank YOU…

…that was an epic read :heart:

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